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It wasn鈥檛 the 鈥淭oday鈥� show, and it wasn鈥檛 the 鈥淭onight鈥� show. When it debuted 40 years ago, "Late Night with David Letterman" brought a new, surreal, sometimes sarcastic voice to television. And although the host was from Indianapolis, there was a distinct Cleveland influence behind the scenes.

When Larry 鈥淏ud鈥� Melman welcomed viewers late on the evening of Feb. 1, 1982 鈥� technically, half past midnight Feb. 2 鈥� it kicked off a 33-year-run of what Letterman himself sometimes called, 鈥�.鈥� Watching that night was a young man who worked in the NBC tape library but would soon begin writing for 鈥淟ate Night.鈥�

鈥淚t was the greatest job in my life. I still have dreams about it at least once a week and now I'm a pekid, old pensioner.鈥�

Within a year, Steve O鈥橠onnell would be promoted to head writer for most of the show's run. When the program was recognized with a Peabody Award in 1992, O鈥橠onnell was singled out by name for shepherding nearly a decade of groundbreaking television. And it all started when he was growing up on West 95^th Street in Cleveland.

鈥淚 felt that Northeast Ohio had an impact on my thinking鈥攁nd even a little bit on Letterman鈥檚 thinking, in a way鈥攂ecause when I got there, the thing that was always in the back of my head was a show that had really impressed me and filled me with excitement when I was a child.鈥�

'Am I looking at this?'
He鈥檚 talking about 鈥�,鈥� the horror host who drew monster ratings with sketches and monster movies in the mid-1960s in Cleveland.

鈥淵oung people now in Northeast Ohio will go, 鈥極h yeah, I've heard them talk about Ghoulardi, this late night show with Ernie Anderson.鈥� And the various shows that followed it, like 'Hoolihan and Big Chuck' [and 'Big Chuck and Lil' John'].

鈥淭hey seem crude now when you look at them, but they were messing around with a late night format and they were irreverent and they made, admittedly, blatantly clumsy and careless little pre-tapes; we just thought it was the greatest thing in the world that Ghoulardi would insert himself into the movies and he would have all these catchphrases. He would blow up a model car with a firecracker in front of the TV camera and we鈥檇 say, 鈥業s that allowed?鈥� And I knew that Letterman and the original head writer on the show, Merrill Markoe, wanted to do things like that. They wanted people to go, 鈥業s that on television? Am I looking at that right now?鈥欌��

Ernie Anderson, who portrayed Ghoulardi from 1963-66, is today best known as Director Paul Thomas Anderson鈥檚 father. But in the 1970s and 鈥�80s, millions of people heard him as the voice of the ABC network. When he appeared on 鈥淟ate Night鈥� in 1983, the staff prepared a series of satirical promos.

Harvey Pekar
Another Northeast Ohio guest who O鈥橠onnell pushed for was writer Harvey Pekar. His sometimes contentious appearances on the show are exemplified by this 1987 exchange with Letterman.

Letterman: 鈥淵ou come [here] because you like me?鈥�
Pekar: 鈥淚 don鈥檛 even know you, man!鈥�

O鈥橠onnell recalls, "I just went like, 'You're not鈥攖hat's not what you're supposed to say on television.' And for that reason, I just thought, 'This is where I belong.' And of course, it added a little kick for me that these were Clevelanders and Northeast Ohio people."

Some of those Northeast Ohio people were showbiz legends with whom Dave seemed to have a special rapport, such as Paul Newman, Bob Hope, and Jack Paar:

Letterman: 鈥淚 was lucky enough to which airs Saturday night, and one of the things that struck me, in addition to the guest list鈥斺��
Paar: 鈥淩ichard Burton was marvelous-鈥�
Letterman: 鈥淐an I ask a question?鈥�
Paar: 鈥淗ow many questions do you intend to ask tonight? You鈥檙e getting near your quota.鈥�
Letterman: 鈥淚鈥檓 licensed to ask four.鈥�

CBS inspires NBC
The guests could provide just as much comedy as the scripted desk pieces on 鈥淟ate Night.鈥� One enduring segment began in 1985 and led to a series of four books, all edited by O鈥橠onnell. But he鈥檚 quick to share credit for the origins of the Top Ten List.

鈥淚 think there was a lot of simultaneous inspiration. My metaphor: if a bunch of people are stranded on a desert island and a crate full of food washes up on shore, whose idea is it to eat the food? And we were so desperate to have any kind of running extra that you could do again and again and again.鈥�

The very first Top Ten list was 鈥淲ords Which Almost Rhyme with 鈥楶eas.鈥欌��

The genesis of the list began with a blurb about William S. Paley, then-head of CBS television.

鈥淭he Daily News or some local New York periodical had a list of the Top Ten Eligible Bachelors. And I was just going around showing it to everybody like, 鈥業sn't this ridiculous?鈥� Because he's 89 years old or something. So, what I say now is that the credit goes to Jim Downey and to Kevin Curran and to Merrill Markoe and to Randy Cohen鈥︹��

Curran was also the driving force behind one of the show鈥檚 most surreal experiments, the 鈥淪ummer Time Sunshine Happy Hour,鈥� an entire episode of 鈥淟ate Night鈥� made up to look like a 1960s summer replacement series.

Experimental 'film'
Other experimental episodes included one which was formatted as a daytime show. An experiment which never made it to air was fully animating an episode in Claymation, the brainchild of writer Matt Wickline, from Willowick. Growing up, he recalls being influenced by 鈥淗oulihan and Big Chuck,鈥� and was star struck after presenting some of his early Super 8 films to the quietly charismatic, lantern-jawed Chuck Schodowski aka Big Chuck. A Devo fan, he nearly attended Kent State University for its experimental film program. He eventually settled on Ohio University and then interned at 鈥淟ate Night.鈥� In 1983, when several writers left at once, an opening was created and Wickline says, 鈥淚 was caulk.鈥� He was also on staff as the show won Emmys for writing, such as for 鈥淐hristmas with the Lettermans.鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淲hile I was there, my boss at the time said, 鈥榊ou're kind of funny. Why don't you write some jokes and put them on Dave鈥檚 desk, because he's always hungry for opening remarks.鈥� And so, like an idiot, I did what she said, not thinking that this could get you fired really fast. But I did it, and he liked them, so I kept doing that and then, about two months later, a bunch of the core writers were leaving to work on [鈥淭he New Show鈥漖 with Lorne Michaels. Suddenly there was this big hole to fill.

鈥淥ne of the early pieces that I did, which was the first time where Dave said, 鈥榃ow, that's nice! Do more of those,鈥� was a response to viewer mail. The viewer was from Pennsylvania, and the letter itself was funny. He was putting Dave down and saying, 鈥楧ave, in the larger scheme of things on planet Earth, you're just minuscule; you don't matter.鈥� So I did this sort of parody of a Carl Sagan 鈥楥osmos鈥� episode with the music and shots of the planets and stars. It was just a comparison of Dave and his celebrity and this kid in Pennsylvania and his crummy life, and putting that in another perspective.鈥�

Bhatia: 鈥淧ennsylvania isn鈥檛 too far from Ohio . How did growing up in Willowick shape your sense of humor?鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淲hen I was really young, the big hit in my house was Ghoulardi. My older brothers kept him alive doing his bits for years to come: 鈥榦va dey,鈥� and playing Frankie Yankovic鈥檚 鈥榃ho Stole the Kishka?鈥� And then in the later 60s, when I was growing up, we had 鈥楬oolihan and Big Chuck.鈥� So I watched these guys who were doing funny sketches around the monster movies at night and just went to copying it myself.

鈥淲hen I was 10 or 12, I'd borrow my Dad鈥檚 camera and go make my own little sketch parodies that were basically an attempt to do what Ghoulardi and Big Chuck did. In fact, I got to meet Big Chuck once and took him a couple of my movies and he was very encouraging and sweet. It was sort of a shot in the arm to me to think, 鈥榤aybe I should keep doing this.鈥欌��

Bhatia: 鈥淪ince we鈥檙e talking about filmmaking, I heard that at one time you were trying to find a way to animate an entire episode of 鈥楲ate Night鈥� in Claymation?鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淭hat was just a disaster [because] basically, it was difficult to do for the budget that we had. So rather than being able to afford professionals to do all the different things necessary to make it happen, we got some college kids who were talented. But everywhere in the chain there were little things that broke down, so it never quite materialized. In the imagination section of it, it was a blast because we had fun ideas that never came to fruition, such as Dave and Paul -- at the end of a work day -- getting in a little worm car with a sort of drill nose on it and driving home to beat the freeway traffic, by just drilling under the Earth. There were just odd, strange things you could only do in animation that were a part of it. It was just beyond the budget of NBC.鈥�

Bhatia: 鈥淒idn鈥檛 Conan O鈥橞rien eventually do that while he was hosting 鈥楲ate Night鈥�?鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淵es, he did [and] did it very well. So, I'm sure he stole it from me. In fact, I do remember at one point he was up in the office and he might have gone through my desk.鈥�

Bhatia: 鈥淵ou've probably got an airtight lawsuit on your hands.鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淗e looks like he's got some dollars, so I'm coming for him! (laughs)鈥�

Chris Elliot
Bhatia: 鈥淭ell me about some of the pieces which did make it on-air, such as the recurring pieces with Chris Elliott.鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淐hris was just fantastic and so fun to work with. We did all the 鈥榞uys鈥�: The Panicky Guy, The Guy Under the Seats, The Fugitive Guy, The Regulator Guy. It was, 鈥榃e've done nine weeks of that. What we need is another guy.鈥� So we鈥檇 just find some other thing, like Chris with a goofy accent, that鈥檚 The Regulator Guy.

鈥淥ne of my favorite things that I did with Chris, which I think nobody would remember, was a talk show of his own called 鈥楴ight Light.鈥� Basically, he had a smaller replica of Dave鈥檚 desk and guest chairs, 15 feet from where Dave鈥檚 desk and guest chairs were. Chris was just doing the exact same show and then Dave would just interrupt it and say, 鈥楬ow is this different than what I'm doing?鈥欌��

Bhatia: 鈥淐hris Elliott grew up in a showbiz family, and of course you and Steve O鈥橠onnell didn鈥檛. Was there some kinship among you, Steve, Dave, and even Jim Downey, since you鈥檙e all from the Midwest?鈥�

Wickline: 鈥淭here definitely was a shared sensibility there. I felt like I walked right into heaven in a way because I had been at college at Ohio University and his morning show [in 1980] was on. Every morning, in the main lobby TV room, it was just packed. Everybody was up and watching it. It was a revelation and so much of what became 鈥楲ate Night.鈥� So, when I suddenly had the opportunity for the internship and then was on the show, it was a little bit like if you'd gotten that job with Big Chuck down at WJW, but it was Dave and it was New York.

鈥淚 imagine we were all watching the same kind of Midnight Monster movie schlock and the sense of craziness and absurdity that existed at that hour. It absolutely translated right to what we were doing at 12:30 at night. Dave was in this new time slot in the middle of the night, where you were just allowed to stay on and fail. You know, so there was that same feeling of experimentation going on that I'm sure Ernie Anderson and people like that felt, that you're in a time slot where nobody cares. You can try anything.鈥�

Steve v. Scotty
That inevitably meant that jokes sometimes didn鈥檛 quite land with the audience, even back in Northeast Ohio. O鈥橠onnell鈥檚 father was a welder who spent his days working by the Cuyahoga River and had a terrific sense of humor.

"I'd go home for Christmas and he would say, 'It's very funny, but that Paul Shaffer. He seems kind of like a phony baloney.' And I'd go, 'Yeah, it's sort of the joke, Dad. He doesn't really like all that showbiz stuff, but actually, yes, he does. It's hard to explain [that] he loves it, and he knows it's horrible and he loves it again.'"

Although O'Donnell's friends back home loved the show, especially when he snuck their names or common expressions into sketches, some complained it was on too late. And after the show of Aug. 5, 1982, O'Donnell recalls his Aunt Vera was quite angry. "Letterman actually had me come sit down and be a guest. And then he goes, 'Okay, Scotty, tell me about what you're doing here.' And she said, 'He couldn't even get your name right!' And I'm going, 'It's a joke!'"

On occasion, O鈥橠onnell would appear with his twin brother, the late writer Mark O鈥橠onnell. Mark wrote for "Saturday Night Live" at several points, but he's best known for his Tony Award-winning work writing the book for "Hairspray." The pair would occasionally appear on "Late Night" when a sketch called for identical twins.

Eschewing Hammerquist
Growing up, they attended Wilbur Wright Elementary and John Marshall High School in Cleveland before making their way to Harvard. Steve eventually spent several years at American Greetings, providing more fodder for Letterman.

鈥淭he last week I was at American Greetings, one of the executives took me in his office and shut the door. He says, 鈥業f you stay here instead of going to New York, I think you could be the next Bob Hammerquist.鈥� And I had no idea who that was, the greatest greeting card writer of the day. But I told that to Letterman about a year into our working relationship. He liked the word, the name 鈥楬ammerquist,鈥� [given] how verbal he is. So whenever something would go really wrong on the show, he would sometimes just look at me and go, 鈥榊ou're no Hammerquist.鈥� And I would have to agree I was not.鈥�

(One of Hammerquist's credited humor pieces is in "," published in 1968.)

O鈥橠onnell was hired after submitting material to Merrill Markoe, the visionary behind much of the show鈥檚 comedy. He recalls receiving her phone message and racing from the NBC tape library upstairs to the 鈥淟ate Night鈥� offices on the 14^th floor of 30 Rock.

鈥淎nd she calls Letterman, 鈥極h, Don.鈥� He had a lot of little code names鈥� Tiny, Mr. Henderson鈥攁nd he came in with the glasses and the baseball hat, which I didn't quite recognize at the time. He said, 鈥榃e like that submission. You got here awful fast.鈥� I said, 鈥榊es, I work in the building, so I decided to eschew the return phone call.鈥� Letterman was like, 鈥榊ou hear that, Merrill? Eschew. We've got a writer here. We're going to get our money's worth.鈥欌��

World Wide Pants / The Donz

Gratitude
Looking back 40 years later, writers like Wickline also got a great deal out of writing for 鈥淟ate Night.鈥�

鈥淭he sense of gratitude I have for a first job where Dave Letterman is the guy teaching you comedy. I mean, I don't think there's anybody better out there to learn comedy from. He just had the perfect gut and the perfect sensibility of what can get a laugh, but also what can be beautiful and absurd and needs to exist even if it doesn't get a laugh. He was just our North star for all of that. He was a writer as well as a stand up before doing the show, so he brought a writer鈥檚 sensibility to editing and making all the pieces better.

鈥淭hey'd send me to the editing room, I remember I'd constantly be bringing up these pieces and think, 鈥極h, this is great. He's going to love this.鈥� He would sit and watch something and laugh and I'd think, 鈥榊es, it's a home run! Fantastic.鈥� He would say, 鈥楾hat's long. I think you can find 20 seconds of air in that. Cut the weakest joke.鈥� So, I feel like he, with everything he did, although it looked very relaxed and loosey goosey on the show, he puts so much thought and so much effort into all of it. And so that's the guy we watched. And that's the guy we learned from and I'm so grateful for that.鈥�

Today, Wickline lives on the west coast. So does O鈥橠onnell, who still looks back fondly at his hometown and the Midwestern sense of humor which shaped one of the most revered television shows of all time.

鈥淭here's something to it. There's something about the Midwest and the sense of humor, I think because it wasn't quite professional. It wasn't like 鈥榡oke-boom-payoff-boom-Friars Club-boom,鈥� which has its own delights and charms, of course. But it was just a little more strange, a little more glancing, a little more surreal.

鈥淸Letterman] is someone you wish always to please your whole lifetime. I'm 67 years old now and I still feel like I'm 18 when I meet with him and talk with him, just because he remains an idol and someone that you don't want to disappoint. He certainly has been good to me.鈥�